Joanne Verkuilen

Spence: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Conception Channel podcast, brought to you by the Being Fertile Program and Yinstill Reproductive Wellness. I am your host, Spence Pentland, and today, I’m super excited to be able to speak with our special guest, Joanne Verkuilen. Joanne is the creator of Circle and Bloom, a lot of you might know exactly what I’m talking about. It is primarily from my perspective, guided visualization and meditation for reproductive health, more specifically in fertility women and men. Actually, I’m going through some fertility I’d love to touch on that male program, I’ve never listened to it. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Joanne: Thank you. thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it.

Spence: Awesome, it’s Friday, you are heading into the weekend. I’m just kind of waking up and got the kids off to school, so, I appreciate you taking the time out, and just a little bit of housekeeping before we jump into your story I’m excited to hear because I know you have a background that got you into this. If you haven’t already done so, please go to the bottom of the podcast page, if you’re on here on beingfertileprogram.com, subscribe we’ll let you know when new podcasts come out. We’re also on Apple iTunes podcasts, you can leave a nice review while you’re there or on YouTube as well at the Conception Channel.

Anyway, without further ado, Joanne, do you mind like kind of dialing back and letting everyone know kind of why this passion project came to fruition?

Joanne: Absolutely, and this kind of goes back pretty far into my own life just because I was diagnosed with PCOS as a teenager and I’ll never forget the words of my excellent doctor, you know, I changed doctors and he diagnosed me like almost right away, whereas all these factors were like irregular periods, they didn’t even look at it. But this doctor was like, okay, it’s PCOS, pretty sure it is. And I think his exact words were something like, you’ll most likely have troubles getting pregnant and, you know, those are hard words to hear even as a teenager. Of course, you know, my plans for that were much later in life, but still you have dreams of being a mother someday and when that becomes a big question mark at that young age, it was hard. And then also throughout college, I had started dabbling in self-hypnosis and in the mind-body connection. I actually helped, and I don’t know where I came up with this idea, it just kind of came to me, but he was a friend who had alopecia, which people know it’s

basically white blood cells that attack your hair follicles. And I because I was interested in self-hypnosis and doing my own kind of research I had taken a class as well that I got him into a relaxed stage and I would I help him visualize what was happening with his white blood cells attacking and then just having him visualized on those white blood cells just relaxing and kind of dissipating, and his hair grew back. I don’t know if that was because of what I did but I’m telling you this has been something in my life that has always been there, there’s mind-body connection and then the interest in the mind-body connection, and being able to tap into your inner wisdom, that always interests me. So then, going through, I’ll fast-forward, I got married, my first child really wasn’t a problem with respect to getting pregnant, thank God. That was a sort of relatively easy. It still took me a long time, but we were trying but not trying, you know. I tell people, it’s like your hand, just leave it open and that butterfly will land, that was the mentality I had for the first one. And then the second child was a completely different story. We were really having troubles, we had multiple miscarriages, and it just became this high-level of stress in my life unfortunately. And we came through it, we didn’t have to do anything too major, like IVF or anything, but you know you go through something like that, and month after month after month for many, many months, I think we’ve tried for about two years and it was so very taxing. Then I got a healthy pregnancy. And then I had my best friends start to go through infertility, in her case it was kind of unexplained, nothing was physically wrong with her. And we could just see, sitting from the outside, the stress. And so then I started researching, well, what is the stress and fertility connection, and all of this mind-body stuff came back to me. At that time, I‘ve been working on Wall Street, I was in mergers and acquisitions and so kind of put all that kind of stuff to the side ,but when it started happening, it just really hit me hard and I knew I needed to do something. I had never forgot sitting in my kitchen one morning and wanting to do something on my own as well from a business perspective, and then had this idea of doing a daily meditation that changed to the cycle, which kind of hit me over the head like, I could do this, this could be amazing to have something that somebody could do every single day to not only elicit the relaxation response, which could reverse the effects of stress, open up the mind-body connection so using the guided visualization to really physically go in and visualize what your body should be doing during that time of the cycle. And then the other element is feeling in control again. It’s like doing something every single day that gives you that feeling of being in control over your body, being in control over your future healing and control of this big unknown. And when you’re going through infertility, it’s this big unknown, it’s very frustrating, it’s all the fear that

maybe is kind of all these in our beliefs and repressed emotions or start to come up. So, anyway, to do something every single day and that’s I’m like, I’ve got to do this. It just flowed out, the writing of it came out so easily, the recording of it came out so easily, I got some investors, they came like — I’m telling you, I didn’t have to do anything, they just showed up in my life.

Spence: You know that it was meant to be.

Joanne: Absolutely meant to be. Anyway, that’s my quick story.

Spence: Awesome. Is that recording still around today, the original one?

Joanne: No, not the original one. I had revamped that just to make it better, how I learned, it was like going backwards, but that was my very first one and I knew I could make it a lot better . So, I went back, that was probably like maybe three or four years into it after we had developed a series of other programs and you just get better and better. Some of my original programming is no longer available but it’s the same idea.

Spence: You might have to do a legacy release or something. We were talking before about authenticity and just organic conversation. I mean, that’s such a great idea. Did that — that’s just my own curiosity — did that, you said almost every day or something, it was kind of attached to, here, if you’re bleeding within your cycle or you’re maturing and egg and aligning or ovulating, there were times so you could skip around on the tracks and choose appropriate…?

Joanne: Yeah, exactly. If your cycle isn’t exactly 28 days which is what we say normally people are, so if you’re perfect, you’re listing day 13 and that’s you know sort of around the time you’re ovulating kind of thing or working up towards it, but normally, so you either add or subtract days, depending on kind of figuring out when you ovulate, so yeah. But it gets very specific.

Spence: That would have been unique to, you know, just a question about your PCOS, often it is an irregular cycle, but it sounds like yours maybe was diagnosed from different criteria.

Joanne: No, it was definitely irregular periods. It was a first out of the gate, I was exhibiting other things like a lot of acne at the time. It‘s so funny, it is getting very personal, but recently I‘ve stopped eating dairy and I’ve stopped eating meat, so this is about five years ago and I don’t know if this is because of it and also because of just what I do on a daily basis, which is my own mind-body focus but I went in and they see no signs of PCOS any longer in my ovaries. I had an ultrasound recently, they are like, we don’t see any signs of a PCS anymore. I think that that just goes back to everything I believe in, which is your body can change. Just because you’re diagnosed with something doesn’t mean that it has to stay that way, your body is constantly changing and being able to allow yourself to be more in control over that part of your body. It‘s doable, we were so like neck up in terms of medicine. Like, that’s how you think and then this is where your body is. There’s no connection, but I firmly believe, emotions and feelings and thoughts completely go back and forth and interact and you can help guide them.

Spence: Well, thoughts become things. That’s not mine, I don’t know, my mom always says that, she’s a Caroline Myss fan or Louise Hay, I don’t know. Anyway, when a woman comes to me and they’ve been trying to conceive for sometime, the word start that I hear the neuro-linguistic programming that comes out is often, there’s a lot of self-loathing and shame and words like, I’m struggling or fight or these kinds of things, and that for sure, if my body is important than that’s tough, right?

Joanne: Right. I mean, the words that you say to yourself while you’re going through this can be very — and it’s so hard to break the cycle, it’s hard to say to somebody, you need to stop saying those words and stop thinking those things. I would never say that to somebody, but it’s like the idea of being aware, first of all, like listen the way I’m talking about myself and my body, and does that help or hurt me, and is there a way for me to move up a little bit on the scale of emotions so I don’t feel this loathing about myself, so I don’t feel this shame. When we talk a lot about ways of working through these emotions like journaling and we talk a lot about being in community with other women going through it, and you know, things like self-care are so important through this process as well.

Spence: Well, that negative self-talk is inevitable I think in anyone in life and that is all of our  

journeys and struggles and maybe growth let’s say to put a positive spin on it. But I like to say that’s okay, like you said, perfect, the awareness is there, so now, don’t beat yourself up even more. Don’t worry that you’re worrying, don’t get angry that you’re angry at yourself, don’t snowball, let’s try and balance it with some positive affirmations, let’s get you on to Circle and Bloom. You know, audio mp3, seriously, I mean it’s not shameless promotion but it’s something women can do every day of their life. You’ve got so many programs and we’ll dive into those, but it’s so effective. Especially because I don’t want to stereotype, but so many of the women that do come in type A, you know, career-driven really, have accomplished everything they’ve ever wanted, kind of in life by like kickin’ ass and working hard. But then this realization, that conception might be more about reception than accomplishment. It’s like, okay, I get that intellectually but how do I get from here to here, it’s like these visualizations. I’m not just a stereotypical practitioner that says, you know, you should meditate. Well, that’s fantastic but I would equate that for people that are very busy in the mind and go-go as to being as difficult as learning to play the piano.

Joanne: Meditation is hard on your own, I do believe that.

Spence: Yeah. So, then guide your mind. I mean, a busy mind can be guided, you don’t need to be a Zen Buddhist, just guide that very powerful thoughtful mind that you have into your body or into positive affirmations. In my clinic, I think this was before we record it, but we’ve recommended your stuff for years, probably since it came out.

Joanne: Thank you.

Spence: Of course. So, can you let people know what programs are out there? Because I mean I’ve only used a few of them and recommended a few of them, but I revisited today before we chatted, I’m like, oh, wow, like the embryo and egg donate, like, these differences and sleep, the IVF and the FET and the PCOS and the natural cycle, just so many. And this 28-day thing and detox – can you touch on some of them? Why not, they are so catered to everybody.

Joanne: Thank you so much. I so appreciate the support, we have so many practitioners like you that have really combined our programs with their practice as well. In fact, we just started working with one of the IVF centers in Northern Virginia and we have a lot of our ease as well  

that are recommending our firms. It just makes my heart sing when that happens. But, yeah, we have programs that cover pretty much the gamut, so you start with where I was, which is I’m just going through a natural cycle how can I gain control over that, can I get pregnant in the natural cycle if you’re if you’re using Clomid or something like that, that’s fine. And those are like I said, the 28-day program, it’s like a 10-20 minute meditation, depending on what’s happening in that time of the cycle so we may get pretty detailed into it. And if I may, today pretty much it’s like a yoga class, you go in and you start off with kind of sitting Lotus or whatever you do, and then you do the stretching, and at the end, you do kind of –

Spence: Savasana.

Joanna: Savasana, thank you. And so our programs kind of have like chunks like that as well, like, you start off with what we call an induction. So, you go body part by body part using your mind to relax your body. And I’m telling you, once you even just get through that part, which usually lasts like four minutes, five minutes, you feel like you’re already in a different state, your body just feeling really relaxed, like you’re going through your own massage. So, you feel like heavy but yet light. I’ve had all kinds of awesome experiences getting to that point, just that’s all you need to do and you sleep much better, just with that part. That’s getting to a really relaxed state, your brainwaves just start to slow down, and then we go into the guided internal visualization, so again, whatever physically should be happening, and we get very specific, we start in the brain for example. We get into the hypothalamus and the pituitary and we start to help you visualize and we tell you exactly where it is and how you can visualize it. We really help you tap into your own intuition as well, like, what are some of the things that we call sometimes ‘dials’, like is there a dial that you need to turn. Just use your intuition till you kind of slightly adjust things or whatever you need to do, but then we see the communication between the pituitary and hypothalamus and how that works between that and your ovaries. And then we literally go right into the fallopian tube and then of course the uterus and seeing what’s happening in the uterus. We always assume that the sperm is meeting egg and things are happening just as they should, and then for the rest of the two weeks, after ovulation, we kind of just see what’s happening inside the uterus and making sure that relaxation and acceptance and like those feelings – so, we do that part, induction, and we do the guided specific physical visualization. And then towards the end, we offer kind of an emotional release or guiding you towards maybe a way for you to release inner emotions, repressed emotions, feelings of shame or whatever it is that’s going on. We don’t of course tell  

you specifically, but we use kind of just high-level guiding you towards how you can be thinking about those things in a way to release them. That pretty much covers in, and course, once that’s done we either say, okay, bringing you back up to an awareness, or if you’re in bed asleep, let this feeling of relaxation continue throughout your entire — so to answer your question, fertility, natural cycle, IVF, IUI, we’ve got the frozen embryo transfer. If you’re doing an egg donation, we have two PCOS programs, one if you want to get pregnant and one if you’re just trying to right and balance yourself out. I’m trying to think if there’s any more.

Spence: Even embryo donation – is that right?

Joanna: No.

Spence: I thought I’d just read that and I was like, wow, that’s specific and catering.

Joanna: We’ve got all kinds of programs that will kind of aid you through the entire process, but as well that if you’re not trying to get pregnant, you know, we’ve got a whole slew of, like, mindfulness, accomplishing goals, feeling better about yourself.

Spence: Happy.

Joanna: Yeah, it’s just finding that balance inside. We also have a program for pregnancy as well, let me not forget that. Most of the people that go through our programs always come back to us and let us know, and, in fact, a lot of women were like, I really miss my recordings everyday. I’m like, you need to get on this pregnancy thing. And so, now we have people who went through motherhood…

Spence: Postpartum period.

Joanna: Yes, like, help me out here with this because it’s a very stressful process. The pregnancy program runs the entire length of the pregnancy.

Spence: It’s awesome. I mean, when we’ve been working with a woman utilizing the various programs that you have, it’s this mini celebration we have when we can turn on that first

trimester recording, and then when it gets to happy birth, it’s just so exciting. And that’s — I don’t know if it’d be hypno birthing here, it’s a birthing visualize. To rewind a little bit, I love your explanation of how you dive in and talk people through what’s going on in their mind and in the pituitary and hypothalamus ovarian axis because that literally is connecting the mind and the body. You know, the brain and the body, the mind and the body. I want you to understand exactly how much influence just what your thinking in your mind can have on your body, so I get them to fall into a nice state and relax, and I say, okay, when you’re ready move your big toe, and they’re like, well, that’s ridiculous. I’m like, but that is just your mind-body, and yes, it’s more subtle when you’re sending nutrition to your ovaries or your uterine lining, but you just have to have faith that that is working out. And these programs can be so a) educational and b) like helping with mind-body.

Joanna: There are so many stories, we actually work with Dr. Bernie Siegel very closely early on, he’s still technically on our advisory board, he also has a program for cancer by the way, and I’d like to talk a little bit about that. And that’s really inspired by Dr. Bernie Siegel’s work because his focus was always on oncology and he would always propose up his patients use some kind of mind-body connection. In his book Love, Medicine and Miracles, one of the stories that I always bring up because it’s just so powerful is of this little boy who had a brain tumor and basically it got to a point where the doctors were like, we can’t do anything for him So, the parents did not stop, they brought him to a center — I’m not sure where, I am going back in time because Love, Medicine and Miracles is a book from the ‘80s — and they helped him visualize. He would do this every day, he would visualize like, little Martians coming in, so they made it fun, like little Martians coming in and using these fun machine guns to stop the brain tumor. So, he would do that every day, and then he, I guess, took a fall down the stairs and hit his head really good, really hard, went back and got a CAT scan, and I think actually before that, he did say, mommy or daddy, there’s nothing left to shoot. They’re like, well, what are you talking about, like his intuition. Not only was he visualizing then but the communication went both ways. So, he saw that he had healed himself. I don’t think anybody believed him until they saw the CAT scan of him being completely healthy. So, I firmly believe that — and I have a friend who unfortunately is going through some pretty advanced stages of cancer, stage four colon, and she uses and she loves the cancer program. And she’s not just saying that because it’s me, like, there was some kind of extra medication that she had to take because of the nausea, and she’s like, no, I’m going to visualize this and she started

doing something on her own to help her body, and she’s like, Joanne, I don’t need to take that extra medication or whatever it is. So, she’s now starting to believe and I’d be interested to see how she gets to a new level with her treatment on her own. I just think it’s so powerful, and especially with unexplained infertility, where we are like, what’s going on. That is resisting. I firmly believe, and I just wrote it down because I didn’t want to forget to talk about it, the intuition is something that actually I have been studying more and more over the past couple years and how we can start to being quiet and then listening to what’s coming up for ourselves through our intuition to help address and answer some of those questions. And I think there’s tools there and I’m just starting to think through that, how that could make sense for at least communicating in such a way that it made sense for people and that they could start to use their intuition in a more proactive way as well, not just through these visualizations but generally.

Spence: I think there’s nothing more intuitive than a woman who has fallen pregnant, but that intuition isn’t gone before that, it’s just maybe tucked in really nicely, and I think it’s wonderful. Women always have insights somehow on some level as long as you’ve got trust with them to what do you think is going on, and it’s always a bit more of a spiritual root in my experience. And that’s where my practice is going and that’s why I love this mind-body stuff. You can fix as much as you want and try really hard with medications and supplements and various procedures, and often that’s the solution. And whatever gets you to your goal, it’s the right path. I love this. My only caveat to someone who says, well, you know, I don’t know about that or I can tell when I’m starting to talk about your programs or whatever in that realm, I’m like, well, the possibility is there that all of this is right. What you’re saying, Joanne, is correct and it does work. So, if that possibility is there, it’s worth stepping in.

Joanne: Yes. It’s worth stepping in, and I try to make people understand that every program has an introduction, and I try to really say, like, the more you believe that this can help you, the more it will help you. Like, belief equals outcome in a lot of times. What’s the famous Henry Ford saying, whether you believe you can or believe you can’t, you’re right. People think, oh, that means, you know, actually doing something and taking action. Well, what about if it means also, like, being able to have domain over your physical body. So, the intuition as well. What I find is like to be able to access the intuition is like asking yourself a question, I actually journal it, but asking myself a question that I’m trying to figure out. So, I write it

down, what’s my question, and then I get quiet and I just listen. And sometimes it comes even before I’m done writing my question but it is as soon as I start writing. And it’s like, what’s coming out of me. And some of the answers are, like, where did that come from. But then I follow it, like, okay ask another question, what does this mean, what did you mean by, I don’t understand that. And then it would come out again, like, okay, so what’s going on and just getting quiet though and listening can be very powerful.

Spence: Essential.

Joanne: Yeah.

Spence: Our heart does not scream like our ego. And to me, whatever you believe, I don’t care the wording, the universe, your heart, God, you need to fall still to hear those messages because otherwise your ego and your thinking in social conditioning, moves you through life. That’s why meditation is powerful or these guided imageries. And when someone’s done one of your tracks, you know, at the end of that is when that magic would truly happen, that creative intuition would really be open because there’s nothing between your mind and the heart, and it can speak to you, and that’s really powerful. I love that, I am just so all about heart-led medicine. It’s wonderful. They’ve created this tool, circleandbloom.com.

So, okay, the IVF, I love. It is half the women that I see are going through an IVF cycle, especially more even today than ten years ago. It’s changed profoundly, how much of an option that is, stepping into trying to conceive. So, the tracks that you go through are different depending on if you’re preparing or if you are going through your stimulation cycle, it’s just so connecting to these women and it’s so great, even on embryo transfer day and then afterwards, which is fantastic. The PCOS, do you have anything or you have something in the process of being created for miscarriage?

Joanna: Actually, we do and it’s free. And it will always be free.

Spence: You give that one away?

Joanna: Yeah, absolutely. It’s Recovery and Loss, I think is the technical name for it. But, it’s absolutely there, and that of course is near and dear to my heart. We get a lot of positive

feedback on that.

Spence: Well, it’s really nice to see how struggles with creating your family falling pregnant fertility has really come out into the public eye more, like, in the last few years. I mean, 15 years ago, no one talked, and I feel like miscarriage is in that same realm still. Because it’s different when you’re getting pregnant regularly, you don’t speak the same language even as someone who’s not getting pregnant, which is difficult. So, it’s even more isolating and it’s traumatic. I mean, for some women it can be a loss that’s with them forever and so I’m glad that there’s something there for that too. Often, I see women try to just glaze over or, you know, kind of skip over that.

Joanna: Move on.

Spence: Yeah, move on. But it’s big, and I think honoring and mourning and all these things are important.

Joanna: And I don’t think it matters how far along you are, that’s another thing. Like, people think, oh, well I was only a month or two in or whatever, it does not matter how far along. Obviously, the longer the baby develops the heart, but you got to let yourself grieve even if it’s only been a little time because in your mind it’s just, yes, absolutely. I love what you said, which is there’s an honoring process there that that you need to go through.

Spence: Right. When women are undergoing acupuncture, it’s kind of that Savasana, what you were talking about and the receptive — if I could boil down acupuncture into one word of how it facilitates helping women conceive, this is more of an esoteric perspective, you know, what it says in the literature, but if I could boil it down, it’s very opening, and so reception occurs. And that opening too probably is a gateway into that intuition that you’re speaking too.

Joanna: I couldn’t agree more. I’m starting to think about how I can package these concepts up. And our programs, you know, we are almost celebrating 10 years, and even ten years ago, we’re like how do we explain this program. We didn’t want to use the word meditation, which is awesome. Meditation is becoming like the ‘thing’. It’s wonderful. And meditation can mean a lot of things, as you know, sitting by yourself even if it’s for two minutes, that’s meditation.

And trying to focus on your thoughts and then you’ve got what we do, which is, you don’t need to do this on your own, it’s like you’ll get the same benefits. There is something to know doing it on your own,which I have found at least which is focusing on what your thoughts are. It enables you to — because if I’m just talking in your ear for 20 minutes and I do every now and then say, you know, try to let those thoughts, those thoughts that come in just kind of pass through, but to really sit with yourself and your thoughts and just watching them as clouds go by, like, oh, there’s another thought, there’s another one, let me get back to my breathing, there’s another thought, because to me it’s just do not think. I don’t think, unless you’re the Dalai Lama that’s been meditating for ever. So, doing that, where you’ve got a focus, which is either on your breath or if you’ve got a favorite saying that you say. I’ve put a blog about it recently on Valentine’s Day, where I’ve been doing a meditation which is just about my own self-love. I focus and my words are: I love myself, I love myself, I love myself. And what that has done for me is, again, just centering myself and making sure that that inner bond is there, and I can also really just be more cognizant of my thought patterns. And so today, I’m like, oh, that’s just one of those stupid, you know, whatever, like, getting back to my baseline, which is like going deep, my intuition, who am I really. Like Eckhart Tolle, I consider him my guru. I’ve learned so much from listening to him, and I must have listened to both the Power of Now and A New Earth. I don’t know, I have it on my audible book over and over and over and over again because what I hear different things every time, but it’s like understanding of who am I really. And then, it becomes, like, the day passes by and I’m in a joyful state because I know who I am and I know that it’s going to be okay. So, that’s kind of where I’ve been heading lately.

Spence: That’s beautiful. In the spirit of Eckhart Tolle, I’m going to see him speak live, my wife and I, in a couple of weeks. He’s near and dear to Vancouver. In his lane, I want people to know that you’re not a failure and to not be hard on yourself if you can’t sit in a full Lotus for two hours and like clear your mind, that is ridiculous. Even something, and that’s Eckart Tolle for those of you who aren’t familiar with his teachings, it’s all really about being present here and now and that itself being meditative, because you’re letting go of the future in the past if that’s true. And even something as simple as, a lot of women, I start them on a mindful now version of washing their hands and guided imagery like Circle and Bloom provides for the super busy mind, or just taking a walk as slowly as you can, or don’t be hard on yourself. Of course thoughts come through and some of those might be the heart whispering to you, so you  

want to kind of be there for them but just don’t judgment. And just start and just go. I like that, it’s like learning to play the piano, it takes some time, so just enjoy it and find the things that work for you, and Circle and Bloom is a great door.

Joanna: Door. I like that. I love that. It really is.

Spence: Just in respect for your time, I know it’s getting later on Friday afternoon, I’m not sure what you’re up to, but is there anything else you wanted to chat about? Oh, here, I’ve got it. I think you mentioned success stories, if there’s anything you want to touch on there? But I also want to before we go, I want to if there’s any direction that the Circle and Bloom is moving in?

Joanne: Well, the URL is sort of just circlebloom.com. I think we still have circle + bloom. You know, the hand in the middle, but you’ll find us by googling hopefully, it’s not problem.

Spence: We’ll put it in the show notes here for sure.

Joanne: We do offer free 20-minute fertility meditation, so you can start by doing that completely free. And then from there, you can decide if you think it’s for you to go to that next step, but a lot of people just use the freebie and to great success. What we have coming up next, I’m always listening to what our community is saying, they’ve got a pretty robust ultra secret Facebook group, like, you can’t even search on Facebook group to find it. The people just want their ultra privacy honestly, so it’s ultra secret. In addition to our URL, please email me with any questions, it’s just joanne@circlebloom.com, you can put that in the show notes if you like for people to reach out directly and I’ll answer any questions. But what we have coming up is more programs, we’re trying to always listen to our community in terms of what would help. In fact, one of the things we’re hearing is people love our programs, to help with their fertility, they get pregnant they register for a pregnancy program, then they are like, we can’t just stop now. And so, we do have a series of other programs, but something that may help with post partum, maybe something that will come out with, and in fact, we have a Facebook group that started on its own from women who have had their children after going through infertility and it’s kind of like the Circle and Bloom. I’m not even on that group. I love that, go, get together, share ideas. I want to figure out a way to bring in more of this idea of

tapping into the intuition and tapping into this idea of, like you said, kind of this power of now, which is just very Eckhart Tolle. But like really understanding that to a deeper degree because I do think firmly that receptivity is there, I think our community wants more of this information and it’s my passion, so there you go.

Spence: I’ll put in a good word for you with Eckhart, maybe you can collaborate.

Joanna: Oh, my god!

Spence: That would be awesome. For anyone listening, if you have had — I like to hear it, so I know that you would — if you’ve had utilized Circle and Bloom and had success or it’s really helped you somehow through your journey, yeah, for sure, email Joanne. Let them know because you think it’s inconsequential, but a lot of other women, in my experience, like to read other women’s story because it might be at the exact right time when things are dark, dark, dark, dark and they need that.

Joanna: Exactly. We do it because it’s kind of like our repository, but on our website, you just go to like success stories or something like that on the navbar, and it’s like goes on page by page, like you’re scrolling down and scrolling down – we don’t do that, it’s almost like a repository. And it’s like, you can go in and see what other women have gone through because they’re pretty detailed. And for that exact reason and some of them, we turn into full blog posts because we wanted to dive deeper into that. Women who are over 40 for example, usually people are trying to find us for that because it just raises a lot more questions, pregnancy after cancer, all kinds of things. So, yeah, you try that one little, oh, my gosh, that gives me hope, oh, my gosh, that gives me hope.

Spence: Yeah. Well, if you have any shiny stars that you feel like have touched a lot of people or a story that should just be shared more and more and more, send them my way. I want to get more. It’s tough to want to share on this platform and I get that, but there are some ladies that are stepping up and I’m excited to have those shows as well because it’s your face to it.

Joanne: Absolutely. I will post something on our Facebook group because I think that some women would really. In their minds, it’s like giving back, almost like they find their story. I

think more and more that we do that, even though it is a little bit more forward-facing and putting yourself there a little bit more, that may bring up those feelings of shame and everything else, but I highly encourage that. The more we can talk about it and put it out there, everybody can talk about it. And it becomes a problem then that we all can collectively solve and not be shut up into a closet.

Spence: That is so great. You offer extensions past the programs like on Facebook and stuff. In that light, people get a hold of you through circleandbloom.com or just circlebloom.com?

Joanna: circlebloom.com. That’s the primary way, and if you have a specific question or idea, email me and we’ll go from there.

Spence: Awesome, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Joanna: Thank you for having me. I love the podcast.

Spence: Thank you.

Joanna: I will have to follow it.

Spence: Oh, yeah, it’s out there, so, yeah, subscribe, leave a nice review on Apple. Anyway, again, thank you. You guys go check out circlebloom.com. That link is in the show notes, if not, just google it, you’ll get there. Try the free one and then step into one that’s more applicable to your circumstance. I guarantee, I’ve 90% hit for my patients over the years. Joanne, thanks again.

Joanne: Thank you.