Interview with Manda Aufochs Gillespie, aka The Green Mama
Manda is so knowledgeable on the topic of toxins and our health that the important information just rolls off her tongue, all while she is smiling and enjoying that she gets to share this important wisdom. This is part 1 of many more to come as it is such a big topic that one interview just won’t cut it. There are so many great take aways during this podcast that you are going to want to have a pen and paper ready. This is realistically the easiest way to take steps toward improving your fertility and ensuring your future children do not begin life in a toxic environment. ~ Spence
Manda Aufochs Gillespie is the author of the Green Mama series of books (Green Mama: Giving your child a healthy start and greener future and Green Mama-to-Be: Creating a Healthy, Happy, and Toxin-Free Pregnancy) and publisher of the award-winning website thegreenmama.com.
She’s been writing, consulting, and giving advice (mostly solicited) on green living and design for a million years. Before handing out that (mostly solicited) advice she does a lot of research and tries things out on her own children and her husband. (They are all still living and they all still have their limbs.) Sometimes her husband rolls his eyes, but as the media says she is “the green guru” so he has to listen. Despite what her children may say, Manda is a lot of fun and mostly right. Manda has helped green one of America’s first environmentally conscious childcare facilities, managed one of the world’s only urban ecovillages, and has taught hundreds of parents and small business about how to go green (without going broke). She has appeared as the green living expert on the TV shows The Lazy Environmentalist (HBO) and Save My Planet (ABC’s Living Well Network) and the documentary The Beginning of Life. She is a feature write for EcoParent Magazine and has recently started working on radio for CKTZ. She can be found on social media as The Green Mama, but prefers to be found wading into the Pacific Ocean with her children.
Author of the Green Mama series of books: Green Mama: Giving your child a healthy start and greener future .
Green Mama-to-Be: Creating a Healthy, Happy, and Toxin-Free Pregnancy; both published by Dundurn
Publisher of the award-winning website www.thegreenmama.com.
Feature writer for EcoParent Magazine on topics such as health, pregnancy, parenting, and personal essays on modern living
Appeared on CTV Breakfast TV, ABC Simply Living, HBO the Lazy Environmentalist, and CBC radio multiple times. Called “the green guru” by the media.
Author and founder of The Green Mama and publisher of thegreenmama.com (2006 to now)
EcoCity Cleveland: environmental planner and green writer; manager Cleveland EcoVillage (2000 to 2004)
The Green Mama
Spence: Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Conception Channel podcast, brought to you by the Being Fertile program and Yinstill Reproductive Wellness. I’m your host, Spence Pentland, I’ll be involved in this discussion, I’m told today. But, I’m very excited to be able to speak with our very special guest today – Manda Gillespie. She’s going to help us all better understand how to be green, how to remove toxins from our world and help our fertility moving forward. At least, that’s what I’m going to ask about. Welcome to the show, Manda!
Manda: Thank you so much for having me! I really appreciate it.
Spence: Awesome. I’m glad that we could connect and make this happen. I’m going to give a little intro, what you wrote up. Every time I find a guest that I love and would love on the show, I ask them to fill out a form, it’s got the basics, their professional profile, and a few things, and whenever it’s super entertaining and cute, I just need to read it verbatim. So, that’s what I’m going to do here to introduce you, and then, we’ll hop into your story and really get some great ideas out there for people to incorporate into their life. Here I go. Manda is the author of the Green Mama series of books. Green Mama: Giving Your Child a Healthy Start and a Greener Future, and Green Mama-to-Be: Creating a Happy, and Toxin-Free Pregnancy. That’s kind of more that we will emphasize today maybe a bit, and the publisher of the award-winning website the greenmama.com. We will have that in the show notes here, so go below, check that out for sure, it’s a great resource. She’s been writing, consulting, and giving advice (mostly solicited) on green living, and designed for a million years. I mean, she’s obviously doing something right, she doesn’t look a day under like a hundred thousand or something. Before handing out that (mostly solicited) advice, she does a lot of research and tries things out — I would say, experiments on her own children and her husband. She notes that they’re still living, and that they still have all their limbs, etc. Although sometimes
her husband rolls his eyes, but as the media says, she’s the “green guru”, so he has to listen to her – that’s a great marriage! Despite what her children might say, Manda is also a lot of fun, and mostly right. Manda has helped green one of America’s first environmentally conscious childcares facilities — I’d love to hear about that – managed one of the world’s only urban ecovillages — I think that’s in Cleveland, I would love to hear about that as well, just what was implemented, and has taught hundreds of parents and small businesses about how to go green without going broke, which is huge. A little more easy today than it was maybe 10, 20 years ago, but she has appeared as one of the green living experts on TV shows, The Lazy Environmentalist, which is on HBO, that’s so awesome. And Save My Planet, which is on ABC’s Living Well Network, and the documentary, the Beginning of Life. She is a columnist for EcoParent Magazine, which is great magazine, I’m sure a lot of people have seen that. And has recently started working on radio with CKTZ, or Z if you’re American. She can be found on social media as the “green mama”, but prefers to be found waiting into the Pacific Ocean with her children, because you’re out here, in beautiful British Columbia, on a remote island, and she has internet connection, we were just cheering about that. If it gets a little bit choppy or anything, we’ll just pause, and we can edit that out, but connection seems great. So, welcome to the show! I’m so excited.
Manda: Thank you. As you know, I’m intending to ask you all sorts of questions because you’re one of my heroes who is featured heavily in my Green Mama-to-Be book, so it’s a real pleasure to be here with you.
Spence: Green Mama-to-Be…right, there you go. So, a great book, Green Mama-to-Be: Creating a Happy, and Toxin-Free Pregnancy. I mean, we even have somewhat similar subtitle books, except you have the emphasis on the toxin aspect, and I am passionate about that. It’s not always about what you should do or add to your life, often it’s about what you should take away.
Manda: Yeah. Although I think that we tend to get so worried about doing everything right. It might have even been you, but one of the people that I was talking to for my
green mama-to-be book brought up, or maybe it was the nutritionist I spoke to, that people right now, particularly when it comes to food, we’re so hyped up about food allergies and giving up this and giving up that, and, like, if only I give up “the right thing”, then finally, I’ll lose ten pounds, I’ll feel great, I’ll conceive a child, whatever. Or for me, it might be, my children will stop screaming, I’ll sleep through the night.
Spence: The next stage, yeah.
Manda: And one the things that she said is, actually, it’s always one step before that. It’s like, if we can just focus on bringing all the things into our diet, or in your book, how you talked about this, bringing all the things into our life, the spiritual aspect, the health aspect, then, the time for me aspect, the time for service aspect, then from that place of fullness, we are prepared for healing and health, and then, having to sacrifice some things later is not such a big deal, because we’re coming from a place of fullness. I think that message I’ve really found kind of across the board really resonates, and I try to start with that before I start getting into all the scary stuff, which also happens when you talk to me.
Spence: Yes, yes. I was giving a talk yesterday at a local fertility clinic, and it was particularly on men, and I would love to dive into men a little bit as well, because — look at that smile, I know you would too — because it’s huge. I mean, our little swimmers are affected by their environment largely. So, I was emphasizing how sometimes you may need to fearmonger, that’s particularly with men, just to motivate, to even take a multivitamin, or consider that their semen analysis may be a reflection of whole health. So, let’s take a look, you know, at the very least, let’s add more color into your diet. And that doesn’t include candy, because that’s the feedback that I got yesterday. I’m like, that is a bit of a glitch in that message. Anyway, I’m glad because toxins in particular can be very — and I even think you say it and I say it at the start of my talks in chapter — I don’t mean to like spread a bunch of fear, but there should be awareness about what we’re bathing in every day surrounding us. After writing your book, particularly the fertility section, what are some of the major conclusions, or what have you seen that maybe are the easiest things to implement that have the biggest impact for people?
Manda: I would say that you’ve already touched on the thing that I found kind of interesting, scary, exciting, whatever, when I was researching fertility in particular, which is, I couldn’t talk to a single scientist or doctor about fertility before, a couple sentences they would say, but really, we have to start talking about the men. And what has happened with male fertility, generation to generation, is so dramatic, and I know, you are really on the forefront of a lot of this treatment, a lot of research around this, but, to me, one of the things that was so shocking, was that we’ve actually changed the definition of what a fertile male is to the absolute minimum! What, 4% of mobile sperm now is all it needs to be fertile, which is the minimum to actually be fertile. It’s not like, oh, that’s a good sign, it’s just that men have lost so much. It’s the reality, it’s based on, well, we have to use this number because this is the best we’ve got going for most men, which is dramatically different than one generation ago, which was dramatically different than two generations ago. And we’re not talking like men in Sub-Saharan Africa, we’re talking European and North American men, that these changes are being shown in. Almost everyone I talked to is like, actually we can kind of stop talking to the women, and we just need to start talking to the men. And I think you kind of also hinted at this just now, which is a different message, and I think they need to get that message from other men. Because they’re sick of hearing it, probably, from their wives, their mothers, and other peoples’ mothers. I think when I look at the couples, I know who are struggling with fertility, the shame that women hold around that is so deep that when you start talking to a woman, I find you focus on the positive, you’re gentle. For women, there are still things to do, but the changes are much slower. The beautiful thing about when you do figure out how to get the message right with men is that they are able to make dramatic shifts relatively quickly.
Spence: I see that too, yeah.
Manda: I just see it from the research, you see it from working with people, and so, yeah, like do you see that too, do you see men getting more interested?
Spence: Well, that’s probably what half of my talk was about yesterday, is how I brought
in a little hot wheels, garbage truck. It was my son left at my clinic, and I was like, oh, that’s a perfect prop just to highlight how most of this talk is about how men are different, and none of you would play with this toy. It was all women around me at the staff of the facility. One thing I did emphasize was, it seems like for some reason, men can implement little changes, and it seems to have quite a profound effect often, which is, I don’t know maybe God letting men off easy or something, or maybe it’s because the baseline of health is lower, or when they get empowered, they really buy in, but I do see exactly that there is, you know, sometimes, it’s just little things make a huge difference. And I think you’re totally wrong, we love all the women in our life telling us what to do.
Manda: [laughing] Okay, I’m going to tell my husband that.
Spence: We love it, we love it. Because our little swimmers are being made so often, even in a lower semen analysis, there’s still a lot of sperm being made. Quite frankly, I’m not going to dive into this, but a semen analysis is a poor indicator of male fertility. But to me, it could be a really great biomarker for health as a whole, and that is typically a correlation that can be made. Like you said, our numbers keep going down, down, down over generations, and people say, well, there’s still lots of men conceiving at those lower numbers, and that’s completely correct, but how much further can it go down? There is a point where that disappearing male fertility may occur. Anyway, there’s a great CBC documentary, The Disappearing Male it’s called, which I would recommend. So, what things would you recommend to a man, like how to detoxify his life?
Manda: I’m going to head onto easy things, and then, I’m going to get unto the things that I really want to also go a little bit deeper in, because I think it’s a big issue for men, in particular. The last thing I want to talk about is diet. But I want to start with some of the easier things. What I loved when I talked to you for my book, what you said that really helped shape my whole kind of infertility in my book, which is when you said, fertility is just an indicator of health. And this is true, and luckily, women have this regular, monthly way of seeing are we in prime health, how is our endocrine system doing, are we functioning, are we menstruating regularly, shares this little window, is
everything going right. So, we can start to see and make these shifts sooner, which is good because women need more time to make those shifts, versus men, it’s a little bit more subtle. We don’t get to see unless something is really dramatic that fertility is a problem, and so, it becomes a harder, baseline indicator as we’re moving forward until the moment when the guy’s like, whoa, instead of not wanting to have babies, I want to have babies. I think there’s a lot of things as men go along. One of the things that we have to realize is, we have to get over this naivety that the world is just clean and great, and every company out there that says they’re going to make you look better, grow more hair, feel gray, and not smell, that they perhaps don’t have your best interest in mind, whereas, women grow up to this a lot earlier because we have so many billions of dollars of marketing budget aimed at women from the very beginning. I think the few people who’ve kind of bothered to target men, have had a freer kind of playing field, and so perhaps, men haven’t always gone as skeptical. I can’t tell you how many men I’ve met and been really surprised recently that they are still dying their hair, you know, hair dye being one of the most toxic things that we can do to our bodies, and not just toxic right now, but we’re talking things that are going to stay in your body forever and end up in your children. So, okay, we can stop dyeing our hair, and like this is not something that comes easy to any of us. When I was writing my first book, I was still dyeing my hair, and I had to have a scientist have like a sit-down talk with me about how huge of an issue this was, and how many women it was killing, and how I should look at it as a bigger issue. Being the green mama, I have to deal with all these things for myself first, from like, oh, darn it. Like antiperspirant, okay, as men, we don’t want to put extra heavy metals in our bodies. Women don’t want either, but men, you don’t have a way of easily getting those things out – they are just sitting in your body. Women, we’re going to pass that stuff on to our baby when we finally get pregnant, and we’re going to offload a whole ton of our heavy metals into our child. A man is going to pass some of that stuff on with their sperm, and some of it is going to be imprinted even in their genetic material, but basically, you do not have a way of getting rid of the worst of the toxins that are in your fatty tissues like heavy metals because you don’t get pregnant. And so like, there’s a beauty in that, because you’re not passing it on to your child, but this is one of the reasons that they believe that men have less of lifespan than women, because that stuff is not
easily finding its way out. So, men have to be very careful about what they’re putting in. So, heavy metals is one of them. Your heavy metals are getting in the form of aluminum with your antiperspirant, and forms of aluminum perhaps in your toothpaste, using any baby powders and talc, you know, on your hockey gear and your shoes after you play, heavy metals are finding its way into you, and possibly, also is ending up in your lungs, where it’s associated with cancers. There’s a number of things – perfumes, like, men are not unsusceptible to perfume, to items, we just throw in male smelling perfumes.
Manda: Yes, exactly. Those deodorizing sprays, which are some of the worst toxins that we can put in your body, that you’re breathing in, many of which are obesogens, which behave in your body in such a way that they attract fat and they can make you fat.
Spence: Stop using Glade plugins or Febreze. Just wash your clothes.
Manda: Oh, my gosh! These are simple things, I feel like most men like they’re not attached to that smell, someone like made it seem like this was an easy alternative to their unacceptable hockey’s clothes or whatever, the men bathroom or the workplace.
Spence: Hygiene practices.
Manda: Yes. Exactly. These are not a supplement to hygiene. This does not make you cleaner because you spray talcs and perfumes. Perfumes are some of the worst toxins. Food dyes are another toxin, you’re primarily not dealing with food dyes until you get to food, but I talk a lot about the kind of food preservatives, food colorings, the additives that are added in food that behave in our bodies as toxins, and that can get in the way of our body’s natural ability to eliminate the regular toxins that we are going to come into contact with anyway.
Spence: Can I just interrupt for a second, what kinds of foods would be easy for men to
spot, like process for one packaged, or that have the dyes and the preservatives?
Manda: Yes. So, I have this sort of list of my seven food additives to always avoid, and we can just learn those seven foods and look for them, but as soon as something has a list of ingredients, you have to read it. If you don’t want to read a list of ingredients, then don’t buy things with a list of ingredients. There are all the things that that men think they are, but can I also say what else they are? Sports drinks, protein shakes, power bars, not only that but in order for us to truly nourish ourselves and to be fertile, we have to have fat, soluble vitamins and minerals. This is how our body functions, this is how our detoxification processes function, and this is how the hormone system functions. You will not be able to be at optimal fertility if you are not getting enough fat, soluble vitamins, which you are not getting if you are not eating enough good, healthy fats, which largely come from animal products. And every time you eat something that is low fat like a protein bar or a protein shake in order to process that protein, your body has to steal fat soluble vitamins and minerals out of your other organs because it did not come with enough of it – I promise you, it did not, it never does. There is no such thing as a protein bar or a protein shake that has enough fats and fat soluble vitamins for you to deal with all the protein that comes with it. So, your body steals it out of your liver and out of your other organs which makes you poor, it’s like a bank account that you’ve drawn everything out of, and then you’re no longer able to produce all the hormones and regulate your hormones and everything else, which is going to affect your fertility, and men really like those things.
Spence: Right. Let me interject and paraphrase here for the messaging to men, good fats, even saturated fats, this is going to help you detoxify, just one caveat would be trying to lean toward grass-fed and organic. I’m sure you’re going to like go all over that later, but that is a message that most men want to hear: I need fat, I live off fat, that’s my main food group I focus on, is fat. And when I do that, both vegetable and animal fat, when I do that, it keeps things quite clean. I feel great on it, I mean everyone’s a little different, but thank you for that: to detoxify, we need the fats.
Manda: You need the fats, so yeah, let’s talk a little bit about why it’s so important to get
organic and grass-fed in your fat. One of the other things I like to talk about when I’m talking about nutrition and diet are the most important things to get organic.
Spence: The dirty dozen.
Manda: Yes, but unfortunately, when most people talk about the dirty dozen and what the research shows is Canadians are really smart when it comes to buying organic fruits and vegetables, they’re on it. They’re spending the money, they know it’s worth it to avoid for instance the 47 different pesticides that are on a stick of celery. There’s still great amount like 43 or something on an apple even after it’s been washed.
Spence: Celery is bad for sperm anyway, and apple.
Manda: Separate from the pesticides, even when it is organic?
Spence: Yeah, it’s ridiculous to go deep, but keep going.
Manda: This is really interesting. So, Canadians are kind of already on that, there’s certain fruits or vegetables that they really need to avoid, but what they have not yet gotten because I think the message has not been delivered clearly enough, is that in the most important place to buy organic and actually beyond organic is our animal products. Why? Because on top of the animals delivering to you in concentrated, little packages, all the pesticides and genetically modified whatever that they’ve gotten in their diet eating, from eating their food, they’re also delivering you artificial hormones that they have been injected with, the antibiotics that they’ve almost surely been treated with, and what makes us fat? Antibiotics! Why do we get animals antibiotics? So they will get big and fat before we have to slaughter them.
Manda: Yes, and not only that, but the more that we’re eating antibiotics and our food, the
more susceptible we are to antibiotic resistant strains of bugs, which is going to be a big killer down the line. So, with our animal products, we are getting layer upon layer of concentrated pesticides, hormones added in it, antibiotics – all these things. So, we need to get organic, but if we actually want to get the health like the most vitamins and minerals and the most fat soluble vitamins and minerals for our own functioning, we need them to also be fed the way they were meant to be fed, which, if it’s a cow, means that it was fed primarily grass. If it is a chicken, means that it was not just kept in a cage. And vegetarian animal feeds chickens are meant to be foraging, they need to live as close as they would live in the wild, so they need to be organic and also have lived outside of their pens and been in sunshine for some period of time. Pigs also, they need to be foraging, they need to have sunshine on their skin in order to develop all the vitamins that they can develop in their bodies. And the same is true for cows that we’re just going to get used for dairy, they need to have eaten grass, they need to have been exposed to sunlight. For us, to get them the maximum nutrients and for the cows to have been as healthy as possible, so, therefore, not needing to have been fed a bunch of hormones and anything else, they have to have lived as close to nature as possible. Therefore, organic is the baseline, it is the minimum for those fat containing things. We need to go beyond organic and actually look for grass-fed, free-ranging know-the-farmer.
Spence: To my understanding, there’s a lot of great farmers out there that aren’t bothering going through organic certification because it’s so many hoops, and so knowing your farmer is super important, they might be raising great animals. A couple questions, if you don’t mind. Number one – dairy, often if it’s not organic, they are given prolactin, which is a hormone that helps produce milk. And high prolactin in a woman that’s trying to conceive can interfere with ovulation – have you heard of any connections there? Because that just came up as you’re talking, I haven’t really investigated that connection before but does it make sense to you?
Manda: It absolutely makes sense to me. I have not investigated that aspect of it, but one of the things we have to understand is that when we’re eating dairy period, we’re already eating something that is full of some amount of hormone from that animal. There are
quite a few people in the world that can’t have much dairy anyway. Because maybe they’re dealing with serious acne or maybe they’re lactose-intolerant, which many, many adults become, etc. Let’s remember that we’re talking about cows that have recently had a child, who are producing a substance that’s meant to grow a baby cow up to adult size relatively quickly. So, then when you throw in the fact that many cows in order to stay productive and to get all the milk we want out of them, have been tampered with, in many ways, including hormonally. We do not want any of those extra hormones in our bodies. They do show up, and they have been into all sorts of human health issues, even potentially cancer, because what we don’t want are out of control cells growing too fast.
Spence: Which is cancer.
Manda: Which is cancer. One of the things that I am very sensitive to, for instance, is, I am quite allergic to potatoes.
Spence: The nightshade family maybe.
Manda: The nightshade family. I’m allergic to the entire nightshade family, in particular, potatoes and potato derivatives. I cannot have any skim or low-fat dairy because it is treated with so many additives, including often some potato starch derivatives, and other kind of hormones and things like that. Many people have a problem with low-fat and artificial dairy, and there is a huge nutrition study done out of Harvard. Jorge is the doctor on that, he talks about the direct correlation between infertility and dairy consumption, low-fat dairy consumption and skin fair dairy consumption, so, any lower-fat dairy consumption is directly related with all else, like, it doesn’t matter whether you’re trying to lose weight, it doesn’t matter anything else if you’re having low-fat dairy is going to dramatically decrease your fertility. And not as much but to some extent full-fat dairy helps to improve your fertility. I mean, it’s very interesting, and they’re not even looking at all the problems with artificial growth hormones in there and pesticides and things like that, but we should look at that as human beings.
Spence: That’s a great study. I don’t remember how many thousands so well-powered,
Manda: Over many years.
Spence: love that that message that high fat, it’s just, again, less denatured a) more like the way it was meant to be, and be) one caveat to that and we are just getting into the grass-fed. I know you can probably expand on it more, but I have found, there’s a local farm near where I live, and they’ve got a hundred cattle, and they produce only a couple products, one of them is a whole milk. I don’t drink dairy unless I can find this. And it’s also in Canada you have to pasteurize, but it’s unhomogenized. Homogenization basically is like combining the fat and sugar, all the molecules together to make it a nice, uniform texture versus it being like you’re drinking a glass of it, and a big piece of cream hits you in the upper lip, which you kind of got to get used to, but, again, it’s far less denatured. I find people tolerating it far better, even people that are traditionally somewhat sensitive to a dairy, if they go to a grass-fed, unhomogenized there, and they’re exercising and utilizing the fats, they seem to tolerate it better.
Manda: Yes, and there is some research to suggest that when it’s not homogenized, so when it‘s not been denatured to all be the same size molecule, that our body is better able to process, and it does not become bad cholesterol, because when it’s small, our body is not quite sure what to do with it and it tries to not digest it. So, we want the body to see that this is food, and to use it as food. So, the research that I have seen, which once again, is not super huge but it is compelling enough for me to suggest that at the very minimum, you want organic, non-homogenized, whole grass-fed milk, and ideally, if you can get it raw, in its natural state, great. That’s very, very hard to do unless you’re going to raise it yourself.
Spence: Yeah, raw. I mean, because of the pasteurization laws, at least in, Canada, I’m not familiar with them in other countries. Homogenization is pushing it through a small screen to mix it together, pasteurization is heating basically to kill bacteria.
Manda: Yes, which kills enzymes, which is the sort of why so many people can have raw, that can’t have pasteurized, and Canadians can access it when they go to the US, but they can’t get it legally in Canada anymore.
Spence: Maybe it’s a little more lax in Europe, because I know women would like to hear about this, but pasteurized cheese, the soft cheeses often that come from Europe, when you are pregnant or when you’re trying to get pregnant are encouraged to shy away from those, but Canadian soft cheeses are all pasteurized, so they are okay – is that right?
Manda: The Canadian soft cheese is all pasteurized, and for them to be imported here to be a soft cheese, also has to be pasteurized. So, you can get raw cheeses in Canada that haven’t aged still, but I do talk about in my book, the recent research on all those foods that pregnant women are supposed to avoid, and actually, there is a very — I forget which group it came out with but I talked about it in the group, but it’s like the Canadian Pediatric Association recently released a study that was quite good. It was like, actually we do not have to be so scared of these soft cheeses, runny yolks, unpasteurized honey, raw fish, that that pregnant women have been told for so long that they have to be scared of. It does not mean that you can’t get sick from these things but that our placenta which is by the way not well designed to keep out toxins is well designed to keep out foodborne illnesses, most foodborne illnesses from the baby. That doesn’t mean we want to get sick and what they do say, which I think is a huge coup for all of us is that you have to be so sure about your sources. And we always need to be sure about our sources. If it is not organic, grass-fed, raised on a small farm, the chances of it being contaminated with something really nasty, like E.coli, are much higher, and we don’t want to get sick from those things ever.
Spence: Yeah, right. You bring up honey, I was talking to this guy locally, a friend of the family, and he’s a beekeeper, and he actually went to the place of educating himself enough to teach others how to do it, he’s gone through, I don’t know what form of education for it, but he’s super-passionate about it, and he enlightened me too. A lot of
these honeys that may have caused problems in the past, he says, you’d need to know your sources of honey because otherwise if you’re just buying relatively inexpensive honey in the store, it may have come from China, it might not even be honey. It might be some honey mixed with cheaper sweeteners and some sort of goo substance they’ve created — I don’t know, again, I was emphasizing the sources because good hone — I don’t know how honey can be bad — like a good, locally-sourced honey that is hopefully feeding on organic clover or whatever it might be, but, yeah, sourcing.
Manda: Sourcing, sourcing. Also, I talked about something else that was really of interest to me when it comes to sourcing, because it’s really way more confusing than I think it ought to be, which is fish and seafood.
Spence: Yes, sushi, West Coast.
Manda: Yeah. I’m from Ohio. I did not grow up eating fish. Fish was something that you bought in a freezer that was like breaded in a stick form, and we were poor, like government didn’t give us fish. We were like, “Fish? What is that?” So, I moved out to this beautiful west coast, and all of a sudden, fish, there’s fish, there’s prawns, there’s seafood, there’s oysters, there’s clams, there’s this plethora of seafood. And so, I’ve had to start thinking about fish in a different way. On the positive side, the research about the importance of fish oils and seafood for the developing child, and for the pregnant woman, and for the man or woman who wants to be fertile is remarkable! This is as close as we can get to a miracle food. So, here’s the thing, fish is also, and particularly our big fish, our older fish, our tunas, things like this, are heavily contaminated by things like mercury, which are one of the scariest, most dangerous, heavy metals that we can be exposed to. It will affect your developing fetus, it will affect your neurological system, it can cause spontaneous abortions, miscarriage, mental issues in your forthcoming child, behavioral issues, all sorts of things – it’s a very scary stuff. Not to mention all these other persistent, organic pollutants, which are some of the scariest toxins that we have that live in the fatty tissues of all beings, in particular fish. Okay, fish – scary! But the research shows that even a woman is eating bad fish, like yes, her child will be affected
by that, but her child will be still smarter than a woman not eating any fish oil.
Spence: Because of the protective qualities.
Manda: Yes. Which the take away to me is like, well, let’s not contaminate our children with mercury, but let’s take extra effort to find good quality fish and fish oils. So, I’m going to tell you how to do that. First, one of the easiest ways is to actually find good quality fish oil supplements. If money is a problem, if you live further away from the coast, et, this might be the best thing that you can do, is find a good cod liver oil supplement or krill oil supplement, small fish in a supplement form that has taken out and tested for heavy metals and contamination, which many of them have done, most of the reputable brands have done. And they’re talking like a daily supplement for pregnant women, women who want to get pregnant, men who want to be fathers, etc. You are lucky enough to be able to buy fish where you are. I am sorry to say that Canadians have the least amount of protection of just about anyone in the world. Canada has decided, first of all, that it is okay for us to create and sell genetically modified and cloned fish that is on the market. We do not know whether they’re cloned because they do not have to be labeled. Canada does not need to label fish that have been dyed that have been farmed. They don’t have point of origin labeling. The US has a minimum amount of this stuff. The organic food label means nothing when it comes to fish and seafood. So, really source is so important. So, what do you want? If you’re shopping salmon, and who doesn’t want to shop salmon if you live on the west coast, salmon is great source of good oils and tends to be lower in mercury, but you need to absolutely ensure that you are truly getting wild caught salmon. And it is not enough for it to say that it is wild caught, because that is a meaningless label. You can buy, for instance, wild Atlantic salmon. There is no such thing, wild Atlantic salmon is always, almost always farmed in the Pacific Ocean because you cannot wild catch Atlantic salmon anymore, it is closed, they’re endangered. So, when they say it’s wild Atlantic salmon, they are referring to the breed.
Spence: It’s bullshit, okay.
Manda: Yes! Exactly! It is bullshit, it is not true. And farmed salmon are such a problem because that is your highest source food source of antibiotics, just farmed fish. And farmed fish will also be died because farm fish are not feeding on the things that make salmon for instance turn that beautiful orange color. Farmed salmons will be gray. So, after they fed it all the antibiotics to get it nice and big, before they die, they’ve also had to give it pellets with food dye in it so that they will turn red, so that you will not see how gross and gray they are. They can be contaminated with all sorts of other problems as well, so we do not want farmed fish to be part of our diet, particularly farmed salmon. There are some ecologically farmed fishes out there, I do not know whether there’s any such thing as an ecologically farmed salmon, I have never heard of it, so you do not assume that one fish is the exception.
Spence: Right. So, find your seafood dealer that knows. When we moved from Vancouver not that long ago, there’s this woman on Hastings Street at Wheelhouse seafoods or something, if you got her started, she’s like you, all seafood. I mean, she sourced her shrimp only from one place in Florida like, she just was on it. And those are the type of people you need to buy these animal products from.
Manda: Yes, yes! Because, in most cases, they loved it enough to go in and start doing it. You know, you yourself might know a fisher person, you might be able to go down to the dock and buy fish, you might have a wonderful person like this who sells fish or other butchered meats that you can go ask questions, and ask questions of the people you’re buying your fish from, of your representatives, why don’t we have better labeling, why is Canada allowing this stuff to happen. Like, it should be easy, not hard. You shouldn’t need to have a master’s degree and all this stuff in a background, in environmental studies, and science, to be able to buy healthy fish for your family.
Spence: Totally. Oh, my god, we could go down a rabbit hole, we should create a course together maybe because food alone is big. I’m going to just pull us out of that for a minute because that’s a lot of good pearls and places to look, the animal kingdom is the
takeaway from there, know your sources. But what about everything that surrounds cooking, like the utensils and tools you use, and storage of them, and preservation – is there some overarching simple things that people could change to maybe help out from that perspective?
Manda: Absolutely. The first thing to talk about after animal products is just that all fats are important. So, spend the time if you’re a man, if you’re a woman, if you’re wanting to reproduce, to get familiar about fats, and to be choosy about your fats, because they’re going to deliver more of the good stuff and more of the bad stuff. Then, let’s get smart about plastic. 99 point something percent of plastics have endocrine disruptors in them, which means that they are messing with our hormones. If you care about fertility, you care about your hormone system, let’s stop putting stuff in our body that we know has been a mess with our hormone system in exactly the way we don’t want it to. And Canadians have gotten very smart about BPA. Unfortunately, we’ve also had a little bit of a marketing job done on us, where most products sold as BPA-free, which is Bisphenol A, still have Bisphenol in them, they just have Bisphenol B, or Bisphenol C, down the line, many of which actually stay in your body even longer than Bisphenol A, and are as disturbing to your hormonal system. If you are still using a plastic water bottle, but now it’s BPA-free, out it goes. The most important places to focus on this plastic obsession that I have are, like plastics include things that aren’t even really plastic. The non–stick coating on your frying pan, it’s got things even worse than plastic, it’s got persistent organic pollutants, mixed with some plastic things, mixed with heavy metals, mixed with things we do not even know, that they’ve never had to tell us that we’re finding in whales that have never left the Arctic Circle, and will never leave your body. So, anything that is going to ever get hot, or is going to hold fat-containing foods, or is going to hold hot foods or acidic foods, we want to be super careful with. We basically use glass and metal. Like stainless steel and cast iron, a ceramic coated cast iron, titanium things that do not easily leach, not aluminum, which easily leeches, not canned items that have some vicinal containing substance, lining the aluminum can.
Spence: Those are hard to source.
Manda: Yeah, they’re hard to source. We need to start being careful about eating canned items, be careful about microwaving anything in plastic.
Spence: About microwaving period.
Manda: Yeah. That paper that’s coated, so I had this fantastic conversation with a scientist who, one of her research studies was looking at the things that kind of went into human bodies of pregnant women, and they were finding that women who ate a lot of sandwiches, like Panini sandwiches, heated up in paper, hot beverages out of lined, waxed paper, like these things shouldn’t be a problem, but for some reason, there is something in there that is leaching out of that stuff and is ending up in pregnant women, which means it’s also ending up in men, but we didn‘t have an easy way to find it! And it’s ending up in babies. So, there’s something in those things too. And once again, we’re back to hot beverages, like do not put your hot beverages in styrofoam! It leaches out all sorts of stuffs, it is a form of plastic. Apparently, also are these lined cups.
Spence: Starbucks, these places would be using these? Tim Hortons?
Manda: Yeah, everyone uses them! The line cups are probably better than styrofoam which leaches so many bad things, including formaldehyde. One scientist was saying that a lot of the things that we’re going to as our safer alternatives maybe are safer, but some of them are actually just less tested. So, we need to be extra skeptical about all things that are exposed to those kinds of food products or processes that we know are going to expose us more. That’s heat, that’s all the things that we do to heat foods, cooking, frying, microwaving, sitting in the sun, that’s hot substances, acidic substances – all these things are more reactive. So, I just suggest that people, like if you’re going to go to all the trouble, when I hope you are, to clean up your diet, then, why stop there? It’s actually not that expensive to find for instance cast iron and start throwing out all of your cheap coated stuff.
Spence: It’ll last a long time, and it’ll help you with your anemia maybe.
Manda: Yes! I’ve inherited all of my father’s cast iron. I’ve picked up brand-new, big, cast iron pots for next to nothing at thrift stores, buy new, so this is not an expensive practice.
Spence: They last forever, yeah.
Manda: Then, unfortunately is the harder to remember of like taking your mug with you, making sure your bug is not something scary, but, nowadays, it’s so easy. There’s these double-line, insulated, stainless steel this, and cheap ceramic that, and it’s not hard, it’s just developing a new habit.
Spence: So, the takeaway here: hot, acidic or fatty foods should be aware of what you’re storing them or preparing them in.
Manda: Yeah, all of it.
Spence: One thing I always think about is crates of little water bottles that Nestle sells at Costco, and all kinds of things, and even Perrier – where has that been sitting? And how much heat has that been exposed to, and then how long have you left it in your trunk, bottom line, there’s places in Vancouver which I am super- impressed with that have banned the use of plastic water bottles, they’ve installed these fountains that count how many bottles they’ve saved, I love that. My YMCA here does the same thing. And it’s a reason, you know, the phthalates and things that are in those that would leach more into your water that you think is so clean, and is not. Better filtration systems for water would be my recommendation there, but my God thank, you for that, that’s great. I love these little rules. You just need like take-home insights. You mentioned something about lighting in your book. Can you touch on that? It’s intriguing to me.
Manda: Yes. There’s a few things I talk about in my book, in the fertility section that I
hadn’t really thought a lot about, and then, in my interview process, I would come along the way of someone who would be like, guess what, and I was super excited and also intrigued to learn that how much darkness matters to fertility. Most people who are going down a path of researching fertility will at some point run along the process of how important sleep is. If you’re not getting enough sleep, you are at risk for obesity, you are at risk for depression, you will function more poorly in school and your job, all these things.
Spence: Sleep is important.
Manda: Sleep is super important, but guess what? It turns out it’s not just sleep, it is also light, and light is perhaps even more connected to fertility than sleep. Well, women need to be fertile, and so I have to imagine once again it’s easier to track women, but I have to imagine it’s the same with men, they need the hours of darkness, contiguously a night. And night, that’s not just sleep, and guess what, blue light will mess up your ability to go back to sleep, it messes up your ability to produce melatonin and the hormones that you need to regulate your sleep. So, sleep and light and darkness regulate your hormones. If you’re not getting darkness during the night when we are intended to get it, it will affect your ability to regulate your whole hormone system, of which we notice, right away, the melatonin aspect of it. We see that we’re not able to sustain our sleep through the night, that we’re restless, that we’re having trouble falling asleep, we are groggy when we wake up. We notice that aspect of it, but what we don’t see is that melatonin is part of our whole hormonal system. In this way, I feel like sleeplessness is actually an indicator for men and women, but for men who may not be getting other indicators like their periods being off, etc. They use sleeplessness and insomnia and stuff as an indicator that something is going on with their hormonal system, and they’re seeing it in their sleep. So, we know that being exposed to blue light, which comes from CFLs, the compact fluorescent light bulbs, which comes from our computer screen, which comes from our phone, it will throw off our melatonin system and our hormonal system that affects sleep for three hours after a tiny little exposure. So, if you’re just flipping on that light to get to the bathroom or you’re just checking your messages real quick when you wake up in the
middle of the night, you are doing irreparable damage to that sleep cycle, and probably, affecting for the long, turn your hormonal system around sleep. This is back to like healthy habits that we can actually do something about. This is not needing to wait years and years to detox or do a whole bunch of things, this is just developing like good, personal hygiene around the rhythm of our day and how we depend on our devices. Listen, all of us are equally addicted. We are lucky, because, for this age and this generation, we remember a time before we developed our sleep habits, we have all succumbed to it to some extent. My living is on basically the computer, you are a doctor, you’re all the time on these sorts of devices. But that being said, that if we’re wanting to improve our fertility or to improve our overall health, this is one relatively empowered way that we can do, we can take a power into our own hands, and we need to give ourselves eight continuous hours of sleep. In order to do that, we have to stop exposing ourselves to blue light.
Spence: Okay. I don’t sleep with my phone by me, and I don’t think anyone should. Number one, just the blue light is another good reason for it, and that’s not even why I was but now I will continue to, but also just a simple nightlight to get you to the bathroom would be pretty simple somewhere in the hallway. Because you don’t need a lot of light to get to what you’re doing. And the bottom line, if you’re wondering about your fertility, and you’re checking messages in the middle of the night, that should be ‘uh-huh, a wake-up call. Period. Okay, so that’s blue light – what about a lot of people have street lights shining in the middle of the night, is that a form of blue light?
Manda: Yes, it is. Those are all on the blue light spectrum, those bright lights. I mean, even light is a problem. Even if it’s just regular light, you know, the white light. A lot of blue light looks like white light. We’re seeing it in the white light spectrum, all those lights, in a more intense, the worse are throwing you off. Even like lesser than a street light. Where I used to live when before I left the city, we had skylights, we had this open loft bedroom, we had a streetlight coming right at us, and we had a very limited ability to lock it out it. I started sleeping with a mask because I was exhausted even though I was sleeping eight hours a night I was exhausted by the lack of darkness. A lot of that is out
of our control but I am a big fan of blackout blinds and sleep masks, if you need them. Remembering that the safer spectrums are towards the red, so if you want to have a light — I mean, I have found this a little difficult, it’s not that easy to find a light, for instance, if you want a bedside clock, a red one would be a safer light. You know, yellow, orange, things like that, things on the red spectrum to get you to the bathroom at night, whatever, will have less of a disturbance on your sleep. But we’re even affected by the full moon, which is why our cycle is the way it is. If you want to kind of force a woman to start ovulating and menstruating again, you can use exposure to light to help do that.
Spence: It’s interesting. Maybe we could chat about that more. So, light, which attaches to sleep, fats in our diet, the importance of those, cooking tools and storage, which is super important, we bled into plastics there a little bit – we talked a lot about men off the start, I know, but there’s two last things that I would love to touch on. I’ll let you go soon, but I want to touch on sugars and sweeteners and personal care industry and products primarily for women. I know you touched on it for men about hair dye and a couple things, but the unregulated, personal care industry of makeup and lotions and potions is scar, and so is the sweetener, so, your choice – go.
Manda: Okay, let me talk about the sweetener first because I think it’s a little bit simpler as crazy as it would seem. On my list of the seven food additives that people need to avoid, I have some things that you would really assume. So, things like monosodium glutamate, MSG. You might not assume this but carrageenan – try getting away from it. It is hard, start reading the labels of your ice cream and your soy beverages, even if they’re organic, it will be there, but it will mess with you. So, there’s sort of more like, okay, maybe I’m not so surprised but I think a lot of people are shocked when they get to one of them which is fructose. Fructose in particular. I mean, we need to be careful about our sugar addictions overall as women. I had a very close friend who had breast cancer when she was in her 20s and she had an oncologist who was just beautiful and was like, listen, women need to be very, very careful about sugar, there is a connection, I am convinced and I see it, and my research shows it, between sugar and breast cancer in women. What I see is that fructose behaves in our body very similar to a toxin, which doesn’t mean that
we should be afraid of the orange, which has fructose in it combined with all this fiber and vitamins and minerals the way we’re supposed to get it. It means that we need to be careful about how much fructose we are throwing into absolutely everything, and fructose in particular. Fructose in the body is processed primarily by our liver, which is doing our detoxifying, so, we cannot just gum up the liver with a bunch of extra work. Whereas sucrose is part fructose, part glucose, so with sucrose, we kind of already know to be suspicious, but we forgot that actually was supposed to also be even more suspicious of fructose. So, my personal addiction was to fruit juice. I just loved having a glass of fruit juice, particularly when I was pregnant and you are craving a lot more things. I was probably really craving more calories from fats but I expressed that as wanting sweetness. I would drink juice but juice hits the body similarly as alcohol, which doesn’t mean it’s as bad as soda but it’s still very bad and it’s hard on the body. And women need to just be careful about how much a glass of fruit juice is not one orange worth of fructose. It’s seven oranges worth of fructose. The sweetener that comes in your frappe, that is not a little bit of sugar, that is a lot of sugar, and all these fancy drinks that we all have now, we’re getting it from so many sources. We’re getting it in our protein bars, we’re getting it in a million places where we didn’t used to get it. There’s research to suggest that our predilection, our addictions, even to things like sugar are passed through us to our unborn babies. There’s even evidence to suggest that men can influence the likelihood of obesity of their great grandsons. So, this is not just as simple as that we are affecting our unborn children. Certainly, women who are pregnant, who are eating more sugar are giving birth to children who crave more sugar. There is something else going on too.
Spence: A polycystic ovary syndrome is a metabolic condition that includes most often includes glucose intolerance or insulin sensitivities similar to diabetes, and that is passed on generation to generation. Maybe that’s one avenue that’s really relevant to a lot of our listeners, where sugar is important. Before you go on, I know you’re going to touch on a couple other things that are popping into my head, but you’ve touched on cancer. And for those of you out there who haven’t been touched by cancer, one of the main diagnostic tools used is called a PET scan to find cancer in a body, and what they do before they
scan you is, they fill you full of a sugar drink because sugar is attracted to tumors or tumors uptake more sugar than other tissues in the body, so it’s a way of imaging tumors. Sugar feeds cancer. It’s one of its primary forms of food. Anyway, sugar, go ahead. I mean, you are into fructose and the addiction that maybe comes from some of these man-made sweeteners too.
Manda: It’s man-made sweeteners, and I think that this is something that I talk in my book a little bit about, how my family has really struggled with all sorts of addictions, like down through the generations, both biological relatives and non biological relatives, and I am a big believer that that is part of our current society that we will all have addictions that we need to look into and face. Or, maybe ‘need’ isn’t the right word, but that we are given the wonderful opportunity, because if we deal with this stuff, not only does it benefit our own health, but I believe even after we think it’s too late for us to change things for our children, it is not. It is not late for us to at least model something to our children, and this is back to kind of talking about blue lights and phones and our addictions around this, and our addictions around sweeteners. Many of us feel so proud because we’re not addicted to tobacco and we’re not shooting up you know heroin. Well, that’s great, good for you, but there’s plenty of societal condemnation for the people who have suffered from those obvious addictions that we have said are wrong, but how about those of us who are willing to tackle the addictions that our society completely ignores, our addictions to work, our addictions to media, our addictions to sugar. I think more and more, we’re going to discover the ways that it’s not just like back to how did we once eat. We did not once have such easy forms of sweetener. Sweeteners exist to make us also eat all that fiber and mineral, and you know, like to pick the one thousand huckleberries that you have to pick to get the kick!
Spence: The nutrition, exactly, exactly. On that addiction place, I think Hungry For Change was a great documentary back a number of years ago because it touched a lot on all these artificial sweeteners, as well and these Monsanto atrocities, like high-fructose, corn syrup, or they’ll trick you with glucose/fructose, which is a combination that’s created as well by Monsanto, just look on your Coca-Cola and these things. Or the little
packages you rip open, the little yellow or blue packages that are — I don’t even know what they are anymore, Sorbitol or Aspartame, these things that people think they’re doing good with when they’re drinking a diet drink of some sort, even stevia in some respects I’ve heard, these things are so much sweeter than natural sugars that it actually does the reverse of what everyone thinks that they’re doing. It makes their body crave sweet even more, so when they’re not around those, they’ll eat even more sugars, and obesity ends up being the result, or toxicity, or a number of metabolic conditions. And you agree with all that?
Manda: Yeah, of course. And one of my seven feed additives to always avoid are artificial sweeteners, like separate from fructose or artificial sweeteners, and guess what, the science suggests that, and actually the science on this has mostly been done on men, but for men for instance who drink a diet soda every day, have an even higher rate of developing diabetes than once you drink a non-diet soda. Those artificial sweeteners are only not helping us with obesity and issues like that, they’re not helping us with diabetes and things like that either. We don’t exactly know even why it’s all happening because the science very rarely goes that far, it’s just telling you that this information, and the information is that we have been sorely misled into thinking that these things are harmless – they’re not. Perhaps they’re more harmful than we know.
Spence: Let’s not even go here, but most of the corn and the beets that many of these sweeteners and sugars are derived from are genetically modified. But I don’t want to even touch genetically modified. Maybe we should do another episode, because there’s so much more. I want to let you go but just quickly, but almost as important as food and sleep that we’re talking about, is the personal care products, everything from toothpaste to the shampoo ingredients that you can’t read, that you’re rubbing into your genitals every day, to the lipstick and everything that you’re putting on – maybe just some quick ideas and tips on how to again source there.
Manda: First of all, I want to start by saying what a big deal this is, for most people are clued into the fact, as I mentioned before, that food matters, particularly during
pregnancy. Like, they get it, but what people forget is that actually we’re absorbing even more from the things that we put on our body because they do not filter through our digestive system, which means that we don’t have as many ways to kind of protect ourselves, and that stuff still slams into our liver. A young child can absorb 90% of what’s put on its skin directly, and for a grown up, it’s probably closer to 60%. An average woman is putting more than 500 different chemicals, many of which are untested and many of which we know are linked to cancer, to hormonal issues, etc, on their body every single day, the majority of them on their face. So, these will pass through your body and into your unborn child, many of them will sit in your body for a long, long time, and then pass on to your future children. They will affect your fertility, and they all affect your future chances of things like Alzheimer’s, cancer, Parkinson’s, etc, so it’s a very big issue. My mantra is, if you like the ideal world, we would not put anything on our bodies that we would not eat.
Spence: If you don’t eat it, don’t use it.
Manda: Yeah. This gets a little bit more complicated when you get to things like sunscreen.
Spence: Because men will eat almost anything.
Manda: Don’t eat your mascara no matter how natural it is. But that doesn’t mean that we need to put mercury on our eyes, which many, many name-brand mascaras have in them, or lead on our lips, which many, many name-brand lipsticks have in them. Or that we need to put benzene and other known carcinogen, coal tar, and other known toxins on our hair. So, the next step is, first, ideally put on our body what we would eat. So, whole fats, real ingredients, the next level is read the ingredient list. If you are like I don’t know what any of these things mean, I can’t pronounce them, I would be embarrassed to speak the name of these things on public radio, then be super suspicious why does your toothpaste need all those ingredients, and by the way, toothpaste doesn’t have to list its ingredients. They can put almost anything in the toothpaste, including triclosan, which is antibacterial
product that we think of with antibacterial hand soap, which has been linked to superbugs and is classified as a pesticide.
Spence: Well, correct me if I’m wrong, but the whole personal care industry is an unregulated industry. There’s very little regulation involved.
Manda: It’s unregulated. Unfortunately, right now in Canada, we do not have an organic standard that applies to the beauty care industry. U.S. does, so if you find something that is certified organic in U.S. beauty care, what that means is that it is organic at the food standard, which means that you’re getting a really good product.
Spence: Wow, that’s great. What’s that called, or what do you look for?
Manda: That is USDA certified organic. The little USDA, certified, organic labels. That is great! Unfortunately, you’re never going to get sunscreen certified organic because you’re never supposed to eat it, so with sunscreen, you’re looking for things like zinc, things that are using an actual barrier to help protect you. With makeup, you’re really getting into a whole another world of needing to look for different standards, and there’s quite a few companies out there now who are doing things better. You do not have to go ‘au naturale’ in order to get cleaner, but you have to be so careful, because companies who are actually doing things better, usually do not have enough money to spend a lot of money on ads, marketing campaigns. That’s a multi-billion dollar thing done by big beauty care industries, and you know, companies to try to convince you that they have added green tea extract to their face cream, so don’t bother to notice that they also have PEGs, and other things that, oh, by the way might be linked to breast cancer or fertility.
Spence: Yeah. Okay, I think that’s succinct enough, that’s a whole can of worms, and we could drill down on any one of these even more, diet, personal care, sugars and fats, and storage utensils in the kitchen, underarm antiperspirant and volatile organic compounds in all the scented products – it’s a whole can of worms. But there’s a ton of places that you gave to start, and clearly, I think you and I should both review what we went through
today, and find where else we could go, because there needs to be a part two to this, if you don’t mind talking again.
Manda: I love it!
Spence: Great. We will do that after we review so we can really make sure that we’re covering other territories. I mean, because there’s so much. I mean, basically we’re voting with our dollars in this world today, and if we can all start supporting these industries and these companies that are really putting out the effort, and putting their necks and family income on the line to produce these things, it’s just going to be a better world for ourselves in future generations, and that’s really the way we have to do things. We’ve seen it work in the organic food industry, I mean, now organic food isn’t always only for the rich, you can find less expensive sources of it. Just because people have been voting with their dollars for so long, even the big companies have to listen and get into that. And we just need to keep plugging. And education you’re giving is so essential and so important – thank you so much. This is a lot to digest, but know everybody out there, this is part one, and I will contact you soon, and we will review and do a part two, because I deny my belief of the connection between the toxins in our environment and the reduce fecundity and reproductive issues that we see so often. So, thank you so much for pushing your passion so much in life. We will put it all in the show notes. Manda’s books are available on Amazon and a few other places, and we’ll have those sources and stuff as well. If you want more, her website’s there, and please, share this podcast with as many people because this just doesn’t apply to fertility or reproductive health, we were talking about cancer and just health in general, the health of our planet for crying out loud is kind of what this boils down to as well. Thank you so much, Manda.
Manda: Thank you so much for having me on.
Spence: Awesome! We will be in touch again soon, everybody, thank you for watching.